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Dougal's avatar

In a comment on a column in the WSJ that described Amy Grant's attempt to recover a church in the heart of Nashville that had been started by her grandfather and had been purchased by a scammer, someone wrote: "End religion, it is the biggest scam ever facilitated on man by man. If you can't end it, at least tax it "

To which I replied: "Actually, it's the lack of religion that is the problem. God is not a problem. Evil men are the problem. In the 20th century evil men killed millions and they didn't do it in the name of religion, unless you consider Marxism a religion."

Then, another commenter responded to me and wrote: "There are plenty of evil men who kill in the name of religion or claim to be religious and commit evil deeds."

To which I responded: "Obviously true. But you probably don't understand that without the cleansing power of religion, and particularly Christianity, the human situation would be decisively worse. We'd probably all be hunting each other for lunch without the purifying and humanizing effects of religion. Many of what we refer to as primitive cultures engaged in such cannibalism. They would kill their enemies in war and eat them."

In schools and universities people have been taught that religion is the source of all evil. They never consider how bad the situation could be without it.

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David M. Dozor's avatar

Thanks for this. There is no question that the unchecked "animal instincts" of man are often the source of societal harm. Unlike other animals, man is able to adhere to his values. Spirituality and the belief in something/some power greater than ourselves has been the "vessel" for this important human societal "institution".

Regarding "religion": to me, Religion is a political organ of man. I don't believe it was intended this was, but has often been corrupted, as all creations of man become. It has, despite the "human foibles" been the "vessel of spirituality" and served mankind well.

But, let us be clear-eyed, Communism and US Partisan Politics (as examples) are each indeed a sort of religion. (I won't spend the words on it unless asked.) These religions are readily co-opted toward self-service of a small group, who binds themselves to power at the expense of those who create that power. The main difference here, is that these have expunged SPIRITUALITY (the restoring force toward "societal good") and the discipline that separates man from most other animals. Religion, based at the core on spirituality, cannot separate itself, rather it must continuously reform the results of the "animal spirit" that it was intended to moderate. This is a good model as it is durable and creates peace and development for people.

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M. Patrick McCrary's avatar

A key point has to be made here and it is that, in general, adherence to the religions and creeds of the world, are systems that will give man a better life while here on earth but it is only Jesus Christ Himself that ensures man will live eternally with God. John 14:6 has Jesus speaking and He says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, and no man comes unto the Father but by Me."

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Jonathan Leaf's avatar

So true and so well said.

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Sheila Barkofske's avatar

Emerald Robinson wrote a Substack a while back in honor of an award A. Solzhenitsyn won & the speech he gave entitled “Men have Forgotten God”. Having lived through the Russian turmoil, he recalled that this was a common response within the peasant class as to why so many bad things had befallen them. I found that both interesting & fascinating. Whatever passes for morality today on the left, in particular, is solely based on the ends justifies the means, not to mention is very difficult to keep up with. 300K+ children human trafficked is acceptable collateral damage, but OMG deporting a man who would kill, r*pe, & dismember you for kicks is beyond cruel & unusual. Problem is we share no common anything (Tower of Babel) and our religious institutions are nothing but NGO’s. I was never a Billy Graham fan, but what wouldn’t I give to be able to attend one of his then revivals. At least, I suspect I would walk away with a fear of God.

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Connie Siciliano's avatar

My one most important take on our decline in morality, empathy and just common decency, is the time it became acceptable to murder the most innocent among us, at will, our babies! Aren't they teaching that this is "healthcare?" God help us.

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Cathy Yonkers's avatar

My husband’s favorite little book is “How to Lie With Statistics.” It’s a great book for anyone interested in learning how we can be easily manipulated. I think most polls are questionable and not always reliable. Common sense tells me that not having core values or a civil barometer will lead to a bad end for anyone who is easily manipulated and looks to join with others in a mob mentality movement. Our forefathers recognized the importance of having religion in our lives. Their idea to separate government (politics) from religion highlights the importance of each (separately) in order for our country to be and to stay successful. Religious beliefs help us to find our humanness and compassion. Hatred obviously can and does lead to violence. The democrat party has chosen to use hatred and fear mongering over compromise and good sense to try to hold on to their political “power.”

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Jim Hoffmann's avatar

All I know Roger is that I am a better person, my kids are better individuals for reading the bible and having faith in God almighty. I can personally attest to be on the receiving end of minor miracles in my life as a direct result of prayer and my faith in God. I know this can be debated many ways and I would never criticize anyone for that. The basic principles of right v wrong, good v evil are found throughout the bible and these principles are what is fleeting in our society today. Some of my fondest memories in my younger years were going to church with my Italian grandfather as he instilled in me to be kind, caring, compassionate and loving to others. If we could all adopt the philosophy of 'JOY' passed along by my pastor which means the following:

J=Jesus' 1st

O= Others 2nd

Y= Yourselves 3rd

Not saying it would solve all our problems, but it might just turn some minds around for the betterment of mankind. Have a great rest of the week and Go Navy lacrosse this weekend! God Bless America and our military.

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The Contemplative Pilgrim's avatar

This reminds me of the comparison between John Wesley’s revival in England in comparison to the French Revolution, a spiritual versus secular transformation. Here is how Grok compares the two:

John Wesley’s revival and the French Revolution were two transformative movements in the 18th century, but they differed vastly in their nature, goals, and outcomes. Let’s break it down.

John Wesley (1703–1791) was an English cleric and theologian who sparked a religious revival through the Methodist movement within the Church of England. Starting in the 1730s, his work emphasized personal faith, piety, and social reform. Wesley preached outdoors to reach the working classes, focusing on salvation through faith and practical holiness. His revival led to the growth of Methodism, which by the late 18th century had tens of thousands of followers in Britain and beyond. It was a spiritual and cultural shift, often credited with improving moral standards, reducing crime, and inspiring social initiatives like education and charity among the poor. The movement was gradual, grassroots, and largely peaceful, though it faced opposition from established religious authorities.

The French Revolution (1789–1799), on the other hand, was a political and social upheaval that aimed to dismantle monarchy and feudalism in France. Triggered by economic crises, Enlightenment ideas, and inequality, it began with the storming of the Bastille and escalated into a radical transformation of French society. It sought liberty, equality, and fraternity but often descended into violence, including the Reign of Terror, where thousands were executed by guillotine. The revolution abolished the monarchy, redistributed land, and reshaped governance, but it also led to chaos, war, and eventually Napoleon’s rise. Unlike Wesley’s revival, it was rapid, top-down at times, and inherently secular, rejecting much of the church’s influence.

Key Comparisons:

• Purpose: Wesley’s revival was about spiritual renewal and moral reform; the French Revolution pursued political and social restructuring.

• Methods: Wesley used preaching and community-building; the Revolution relied on legislation, protests, and violence.

• Scope: The revival spread across Britain and America, influencing religion and culture long-term; the Revolution was concentrated in France but inspired global political change.

• Tone: Wesley’s movement was orderly and constructive; the Revolution was tumultuous and destructive, though it also built new systems.

• Legacy: Methodism shaped modern Christianity and social ethics; the French Revolution redefined modern governance and secularism.

In short, Wesley’s revival lifted souls through faith, while the French Revolution reshaped a nation through force. One worked within existing structures to reform them; the other tore them down to start anew. Both, however, responded to the discontent of their time—Wesley to spiritual apathy, the Revolution to oppression—and left enduring marks on history.

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Vichara's avatar

You may appreciate 'The Social Crisis of Our Time' (1941) by Wilhelm Ropke, see up through at least chapter 2. His account of the revolutionary and reactionary spirit or mindsets is illuminating as these, as you point out in your way, are enduring. The left today do not inquire into truth, do not seek it collaboratively with others who may differ, because they presume already to possess it. "The self-sovereignty of man inevitably leads to the self-enslavement of man" is an observation by Aurel Kolnai, made in his 'The Humanitarian versus the Religious Attitude' (1944). When no higher authority is believed in nor conceived the ego or surface mind presumes highest authority. The original greatness of true free-thinking liberalism, and liberals, has been supplanted by this quasi-religious-like fervor and devotion by the left of their own ideology. Two other important works to understand the left at a philosophic level: 'Stephen Bryer and Antonin Scalia Debate the Constitution' on Youtube - Bryer exemplifies 'the real' taken to be what exists, Scalia 'the real' to be what is intelligible. We always have both meanings but there is a dominance of one over the other in people's thinking, which leads them, naively, to accuse their opposite as "out of touch with reality". Finally, the indispensable classic for understanding the West and the grounds of our current crisis on a philosophic level is Arthur Lovejoy's 'The Great Chain of Being' (1933) read it 3 times, it is worth the effort. See especially ch. 11 where there reversal for belief in and search for 'universal truty' fell into doubt and the opposite, the glorification and elevation of 'diversity - as the essence of excellence', became to dominate in all domains of thought. Down to the present day.

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David M. Dozor's avatar

Excellent and on-point. Love it. You might be interested in my response to Dougal on this topic. Cheers.

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Mike Raymond's avatar

Oh brother, morality is dependent on religion? Y’all might wanna take a quick look at world history.

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Mike B.'s avatar

Someone once said something to the effect of, “No evil is greater than that which is done for religious reasons.” Religion always works both ways, dear reader. Just ask Jesus (who ought to know a thing or two about this), whose greatest enemies were religious zealots. It’s hard to underestimate the negative effects of Trump’s particular brand of Christian nationalism.

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Roger Simon's avatar

Really? How about some specifics of exactly where this happened? Anyone can make a general statement about anybody.

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Mike B.'s avatar

Given that you didn't specify what you meant by "where this happened," I'm left to assume you want specifics regarding "It's hard to underestimate the negative effects of Trump's particular brand of Christian nationalism." If I'm wrong and you wanted specifics about the notion of evil being greater when done for religious reasons, I would trot out the Holocaust or 9/11 as two specific examples of dirty deeds done for religious reasons. The so-called German Christian church in 1930s Germany was zealously anti-semitic, for example, which gave Hitler a moral basis for his hatred of Jews; and I don't think I need to talk about the religious foundations for the attack on America in 2001.

But on to the comment about the effects of Trump's brand of Christian nationalism. All Christian nationalism is anti-Christian, of course (given that whole thing about what belongs to God and what is Caesar's and all that), but Trump's particular brand has served to codify a code-switching where a certain kind of radical and martial patriotism somehow serves as a stand-in for bona-fide faith in God. I offer the example of the recent and rather ill-advised embrace by some of the idea that Donald Trump is a Messiah figure (a designation he has apparently accepted):

“On June 14, 1946, God looked down on his planned paradise and said, ‘I need a caretaker.’ So God gave us Trump . . . . God said, ‘I need somebody who will be strong and courageous, who will not be afraid or terrified of the wolves when they attack, a man who cares for the flock, a shepherd to mankind who will never leave nor forsake them.’ God said ‘I need somebody willing to get up before dawn, fix this country, work all day, fight the Marxists, eat supper, then go to the Oval Office and stay past midnight at a meeting of the heads of state. So God made Trump...’”

~ from “And God Made Trump,” a campaign video played at Trump rallies

Then there's the religious zealotry behind the defunding (and possible elimination) of the Department of Education and the national public school system (and NPR and PBS) for its purportedly "secular agenda (i.e. woke ideology) which, we're told, doesn't accord with a Christian evangelical worldview. As a result, public funding for programs that enforce civil rights laws and supply student loans has been gutted.

And then there's the white-washing of American history and, for example, the order from the Trump administration to the Naval Academy to remove all books from its libraries that do not promote a more revisionist view (read "kinder, gentler" view) of the Civil War and the Civil Rights movement.

Or how about the effects of Trump's nationalism on the Church itself, by trying to turn the Church into an arm of the State and so that it can become its religious imprimatur for whatever decisions happen to pop up in his muddled and dangerous brain. The fact that so many cultural Christians with a conservative tilt practically worship the man (see above quote) is reason enough to be able to make the statement I did at the end. I have zero compunction prophesying that Trump's actions/behavior/ungentleman-like conduct will singlehandedly not only bring our country to its knees (it's certainly had a barnburning start) but will drive droves of young Christians away from the Church for good.

Sorry that went on and on. I could do this all day.

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Robert Arvanitis's avatar

Some folks have, or are confident they can produce. These want govt. to protect the border and the free market.

Some have need, and lack will to produce. So they want govt. to redistribute.

Ideology is no substitute for facts and reason.

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Clyde Hayes's avatar

Like you Roger, I am not convinced it will come to a civil war, but it could happen under the right conditions that I fear we are approaching. The Left simply has no ability to dialog or even provide alternative policies except throw more money at everything. These violent actions cannot be tolerated any longer and authorities need to regain control by exacting severe penalties! One could have a rationale conversation with a rationale person, but those cannot be found on the Left.

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Oakley's avatar

Read "Return of the gods" by Jonathan Cahn and learn the Biblical history of the ancient gods (principalities and demons) of pagan cultures and how they are invading our culture today.

Knowing your enemy is tantamount. We are fighting a spiritual battle against the forces of evil, not the men they are deceiving. Prayer for this nation must cry to God for revival in our own lives and in our land. We all must do our part as the Lord leads.

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Christopher Manion's avatar

"Without God, everything is permitted" – Ivan Karamazov

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Jackie Wright's avatar

Three basic points.

1) Any "church" with over 200-ish congregation isn't serving the community, they're serving the system of religion.

2)Any "pastor" who makes over $200k a year doesn't deserve a 503c.

3) This on I've been screaming from the rooftops for 10 years...time to bring back public hangings.

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Vichara's avatar

"The self-sovereignty of man inevitably leads to the self-enslavement of man".

Aurel Kolnai

From 'The Humanitarian versus the Religious Attitude.' (1944)

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Michael T's avatar

This article is built on the logical fallacy that correlation necessarily means causation. Yes, many leftists who are certain of their rightousness would be tolerant of violence in support of it. But anyone who knows the first thing about history knows that religion also often leads to violence. It is not the religiosity or lack thereof that is the problem. It it is the moral certainty of one's own righteousness, whether religiously motivated or not, that leads one to be willing to pursue it by any means necessary. The answer is not more religion and less agnosticism. The answer is more humility and less certainty.

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Roger Simon's avatar

Obviously has led to violence. I am making the point that atheism has led to far greater violence. Mao and Stalin-two atheists--are by far the greatest mass murderers in history. Hitler, who comes in third, was quasi-atheistic, depending on the day. No one in history is close to these three men when its omes to body count. Don't believe me? look it up. Also atheistic communism has led directly to violence everywhere.

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